How exactly to practice?

Discuss different ragas here.

Postby bibhas » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:34 pm

You are correct about the gat being out of beat as depicted.
I don't know this gat personally and wouldn't play it myself as I don't think it does justice to Bhairav as a raag but I tried it just to answer your question. The flow of the mukhda sounds nice if you play the two "dha"s in one beat together so it would look like
Code: Select all
o                 
S dd  P  d  | m   P  G   m
+                 
d  -  d  P  | G   m   r  S

Note that I've changed the last phrase to GmrS to make it sound more like bhairav.
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About Bhairav

Postby Arjun » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:27 am

bibhas wrote:Arjun,
Could you give us more details like who composed this gat etc? The reason I ask is that this is a very unusual gat which does not portray the main features of Bhairav. One of the most important phrases of Bhairav is the vakra descending phrase "GMrS" - bhairav never goes "MGrS" except in sapaat taans like "SNdPMGrS". There are two opportunities in this gat - once in Sthaayi and once in antara - to portray the "GMrS" phrase and yet it goes "MGrS".

Bibhas


Dear Bibhas,

This composition was given to me by my teacher, i will check with him about the errors you have pointed out in the composition. But i am sure he would say " in that case start 'm' by touching 'g'.

But many Thanx for pointing this out.

Arjun
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about Bhairav

Postby Arjun » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:35 am

milind wrote:Bibhas, Yes, I noticed that too. The above chalan does not convey the Bhairav bhaav.

Also, it must be always kept in kind that the GMrS involves a meend from the M to r, with the komal rishabh made andolit (oscillatory). That is the hallmark of Bhairav. The above chalan (or any other form of notation) fails to convey these critical features without which Bhairav does not become Bhairav.

I would very strongly urge all to listen to Pt KG Ginde's CD titled Bhairav ke prakaar, where he demonstrates swar by swar how the nature of Bhairav evolves. If there is any interest I can point you to where you can buy the CD from, as you will struggle to find it in music stores.



Dear milind,

Many thanx for pointing this out. Bhairav is one of my favourites, yes do let me know how/where to find the CD by Pt K.G. Ginde..... Bhairav ka prakaar.

warmly,

Arjun
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Postby Arjun » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:41 am

Mandu wrote:Hello Arjun and every1 else:

I was just looking again at the composition Arjun put on this page:

S d d P d M P G M
+d - d P M G r S

If this is in teental and phrase +d - d P M G r S starts in SAM, isn't phrase S d d P d M P G M one beat too long to start in KHALI (S would be beat 7 and only d would be beat 8)?

Thank you for any feedback

Mandu



Dear Mandu,

it should be read as

s dd p d m p g m,

do the 'dd' is in one beat.


Even though the composition is beautiful, do keep in mind the observations made by Bibhas & Milindji.

regards,

Arjun
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Re: About Bhairav

Postby bibhas » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:23 pm

Arjun wrote: But i am sure he would say " in that case start 'm' by touching 'g'.

Arjun,
Even if you employed a kan of G on m, the phrase would look like Gm G r S - still not Bhairav. The direct descent from Ma to Re with a long meend and andolan on Re is the characteristic feature of Bhairav. Please do check with your teacher, I am curious to hear his comment.

Bibhas
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Bhairav is a Raaga, not just a composition

Postby talasiga » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:41 am

While Arjun is checking with his teacher where his Bhairav composition is from I want to make some general comment. (I think it may be a composition in Kalingda Raaga, an important Bhairav thaat raaga)

Firstly, a raaga is not limited to a particular composition or a particular interpretation of its characteristics as identified by a particular gharana.

Theoretically one can have an infinite scope of interpretation of a raaga and this is particularly so in Dhrupad where chalans and forms are not critical in identifying a raaga but where the microtonal value of the shruti is. (For instance, in my direct tuitional experience, the komal ga of Jaunpuri is distinguished from the komal ga of Darbari Kanhada ).

One of the problems I have encountered is from those who have had an intense training from ONE lineage but have not had the advantage of appreciating or understanding that there are other valid forms of interpretation even in the same branch of music. I am talking of the ones that get dogmatic.

I am not saying this is the case here but I would like to warn about it.

Interestingly, Pt Ravi Shankar in giving specific exercises for specific raagas (My Music My Life- back section) starts Bhairav like this:
0- m G r, / G r S N, /X r S N d /- S N r/0-
......
(I have transcribed into Ruckert system of notation for Sargam -see my signature)
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Postby bibhas » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:44 pm

I agree that a raaga is not limited to a particular composition or a particular interpretation of its characteristics as identified by a particular gharana. I also agree that in Dhrupad (& in ICM in general) the microtonal value of the shruti is extermely important but I do not agree at all that chalans and forms are not critical. Chalan is important not just in khyal but also in Dhrupad. Since we're talking about Bhairav, take for example the legendary 18 min recording of Bhairav by Ustad Nasir Aminuddin Dagar - he repeatedly sings the phrase "GmrS" in his alap emphasizing it. I couldn't hear a "mGrS" in it.

Talking of Bhairav, it is not that "mGrS" is prohibited in the raaga, in fact it is used, especially in sapaat taans and once the raag is well established in the performance. However, it's proportion is always very minor. "GmrS", OTOH is the dominant phrase and gives Bhairav its distinct color. It is troublesome to have "mGrS" in the sthayi and antara of a bandish and not at all have "GmrS".

My guruji says - in order to break a rule in a raag, one has to be very creative and first know the rules well before attempting to do so. And as a student, one first needs to learn how to present a raag in the proper way before attempting to bend the rules and adding one's own creativity. A good musician is like a good lawyer who learns the law thoroughly and then finds loopholes in the laws to exploit them to his advantage.
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Postby talasiga » Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:08 am

bibhas wrote:I agree that a raaga is not limited to a particular composition or a particular interpretation of its characteristics as identified by a particular gharana. I also agree that in Dhrupad (& in ICM in general) the microtonal value of the shruti is extermely important but I do not agree at all that chalans and forms are not critical. Chalan is important not just in khyal but also in Dhrupad. Since we're talking about Bhairav, take for example the legendary 18 min recording of Bhairav by Ustad Nasir Aminuddin Dagar - he repeatedly sings the phrase "GmrS" in his alap emphasizing it. I couldn't hear a "mGrS" in it.
....


There you go making one interpretation gospel.

So is Ravi Shankar's exercise for Bhairav wrong (see above)?
I don't thinks so. Is your exemplary singer wrong? I don't thinks so.
He is entitled to sing however he wants in his Dhrupad alaap providing he sticks to the Bhairav microtones.

One can make a rule about how certain singers or certain groups (gharanas) interpret something but not about limiting the interpretation of a raga universally. And your argument about demonstrating a formal rule from phenomenon heard in an alaap section (such sections, being by definition, free form) is self defeating.
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Postby bibhas » Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:56 pm

Nope, I am not making anything into a gospel. Neither am I saying that Ravi Shankar's exercise is wrong (note that I said mGrS movement is not prohibited in Bhairav but its proportion is smaller). I am merely making a suggestion for how a student should approach learning a raag. An established musician can take his liberties guided by his musical sense and musicianship. What matters most is whether a musician is able to portray the mood and personality of bhairav - rules are secondary to that.
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Re: How exactly to practice?

Postby v_2ancha » Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:51 pm

Hello Milind where can i find this CD... Pt KG Ginde's CD titled Bhairav ke prakaar

Regards,
Ankur
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